Things get spicy in episode 3 when Al visits Nikhil Dutt, owner of Spice Circle. His family opened the restaurant in 2019, despite having no prior business experience.
Things get spicy in episode 3 when Al visits Nikhil Dutt, owner of Spice Circle. His family opened the restaurant in 2019, despite having no prior business experience.
Nikhil opens up about his early emotional struggles of receiving customer criticism and the determination that drove him to keep improving their service and food quality. Today Spice Circle boast the best Indian food in Winnipeg. How did they do it? Listen to find out.
You can learn more about Spice Circle at spicecircle.ca.
Allan: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. I'm Al Grego, and this is the Yes, We Are Open podcast.
Day three in Winnipeg, and I'm in the west end of the city, not too far from the airport, in a community called St. James- Assiniboia. St. James, as it's colloquially known, combines both residential and commercial districts, but primarily, it has a suburban feel, with quiet streets, parks, and good access to schools, making it a popular destination for families, while still being close to the city's downtown core.
Some key features of St. James are Polo Park Shopping Center, Assiniboine Park, featuring a zoo, gardens, and walking trails along the Assiniboine River, The Air Force Heritage Museum and Air Park, and St. James Anglican Church and Cemetery, one of the oldest in Winnipeg. St. James also has a long treasured military history.
In addition to CFB Winnipeg, it's also home to the Deer Lodge Center, originally established in 1916 during World War I as a [00:01:00] military hospital to care for the returning wounded soldiers. Today it's a rehabilitation and long term care facility. With a long history of caring for the health and needs of Canadian forces and veterans.
I'm in St. James driving west along Portage Avenue just past Linwood Street to Winchester Street. On the northwest corner of Portage and Winchester is a plaza called Winchester Court. One of the tenants of this plaza is an East Indian restaurant and the subject of this week's story, Spice Circle.
That's Akhil. We'll hear from him later. He leads me from the main dining area of the restaurant, a spacious room with tables, bar, and checkout, to an adjacent dining room, which is almost as big. It's early afternoon, after lunch, but before dinner, so the restaurant's quiet. I set up at a table and await Nikhil, Akhil's older brother.
He emerges from the kitchen.
Nikhil: Sorry.
Allan: that's alright. Are you Nikhil?
And we sit at our table for the interview.
Nikhil: So my name is Nikhil Dutt. I'm the owner of Spice Circle.
Allan: So when did Spice Circle open?
Nikhil: We opened in 2019 of November.
Allan: This is a family business? [00:02:00]
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: Your whole family?
Nikhil: Yeah, it's a family business.
My dad is a chef, so he used to work in a restaurant.
Allan: Here in Canada?
Nikhil: Yes, in Winnipeg.
Allan: What were you doing?
Nikhil: Well, I was in high school. I used to work at Tim Horton at the downtown. So I would complete my studies and I go back to work. My dad always wanted to open it, but the boosting part is my mom. I think my dad was looking for a long time.
We came in like 2017. So he started looking then, but that time I was in school. So I never interested in the restaurant business or any business. I just wanted to do a job. But, uh, in 2018, when I graduated, in the summer time, my dad told me like, okay, I looked something. Do you want to go and see it? So I said, okay, no problem.
I'll look at it. And, uh, he said, how do you like it? I'm like, yeah, it looks good. And then once he said it's good and he's like, let's book it. I'm like, okay, no problem.
Allan: So he found the location.
Nikhil: Yes.
Allan: And he thought this would be a great place for a restaurant.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: Did he tell you that's what you were looking at?
Nikhil: Like, personally, that's not my idea of anything. My dad wanted to open a restaurant, but he's like at 50 50. Okay, [00:03:00] let's open it or not. And mom says, no, doing a business is a good thing. Let's do the business. So she boosted him and then he finally look at the location and everything. So he told me, go with me because I was not interested.
My mother just told me once only business is a really good thing. If you want something better or something good. Overall.
Allan: You mentioned you guys came here in 2017.
Nikhil: Yes.
Allan: From where?
Nikhil: From India.
Allan: Was it just for work? Like your father came here to work as a chef?
Nikhil: Well, my dad used to work in different countries. So he normally stays out. He just come once a year. Just as for one month or so. So after doing all of that, he thought, this time I'm going to Canada for you guys. That's when he came in Canada for us.
Allan: He chose Canada as the place to move the family.
Nikhil: Right. Settle it down.
Allan: Now is it just the three of you or do you have any other siblings?
Nikhil: I have my brother. Yes.
Allan: And he's part of the business too?
Nikhil: He's part of the business.
Akhil: Hi, my name is Akil Dutt and I work here at Front. Back and just help around everybody.
Allan: Okay. When your father kind of came up with the idea for the [00:04:00] restaurant, and I hear that your mom was a big booster of it, and your brother was just finishing high school, no one had experienced except for your father as a chef. What did you think about all this?
Akhil: Uh, me, it was crazy. Like I was grade 10, I think, 10 and 11 around, and they opened the restaurant and I was like working at night after school and all, you know, and I was It was hectic first of all, then after that I'm getting used to it. It's normal now. It's like my day to day life now to do it and it's fun.
Allan: And your mom, what did she do?
Nikhil: He used to work in a hotel, so he just do the, what do you call it? Housekeeping?
Allan: Okay, so your mom was housekeeping, your brother's younger than you, so he's the student. Yeah. But he's working here too?
Nikhil: Yes, yeah.
Allan: And you dad in the kitchen and you got a front yard. Right. Well, Spice Circle, where did that name come from?
Nikhil: That's my dad's idea. So he just said something and then we thought like, how does it connect to the restaurant? So I know spices. And the logo that we created is something like that. And [00:05:00] it's a D sign that's connected with us. But the upper part with the circle sign, it connects us to the circle. And Indian food has spices. Even back home, or any Indian home you go, they have a round thing where all the spices are sitting. Yeah. In the, in the round container thing.
Allan: How was business in the beginning?
Nikhil: Well, we took over in October, but there is permits and stuff. We don't know any of that because that was our first time doing all of that. We don't know where to head on or this and that. We don't even know what the lawyer fees and how it is a transaction because we have certain numbers in our head, but whatever the numbers we plan, it goes opposite of it.
So like there was a certain amount that was charged for a loan, we don't know that. After we already did everything, he said this is what my number is. And we were shocked because we were in a budget and that's one big hit. And after that he told us that there is a certain taxes that you need to pay before owning it.
We didn't even know that.
Allan: Did you take bank loans out or?
Nikhil: Oh yes.
Allan: So that's how you paid.
Nikhil: That was the biggest loan of our life for us.
Allan: I'm sure, yeah. Even bigger than your mortgage?
Nikhil: Well, it's a smaller than the [00:06:00] mortgage, but you cannot get the commercial loan that easily. Houses will probably be different, but getting the commercial loan, you need tons of documentation, tons of history before they actually pass you.
Allan: You need a business plan, right?
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: But that's something you've never done before.
Nikhil: No.
Allan: So that's what the lawyer did for you?
Nikhil: No.
Allan: No? You did it yourself?
Nikhil: I did some part of myself. But at the last, dad's friend, he, he, they used to work together and he knows someone who was an accountant. He Put it in a way I re edited it and I re sent it to them and it worked out. They liked it and it was good to go, but I don't know what's in the business plan at that time.
Allan: When you first opened though, were you busy right away?
Nikhil: Every day was just sit and go. We look at our phones for one hour and then I talk to my dad. Is there anybody who going to come? Because we never did the business.
Akhil: It was, uh, really slow. Like we have like old restaurant we took over and the old customer comes and they thought like Greek restaurant, you know, we open an Indian restaurant. So they come in and they go, you know, just, just hurts. You know, it's just sitting here waiting for customer to serve. And yeah.
Allan: [00:07:00] When did things start picking up? I mean, did you guys start promoting ir? What were you doing to get more business?
Nikhil: We actually didn't do anything to be honest, because we don't know about any marketing, this and that first time entering into the business, no idea how to do it, what to do with what we know is just cooking. That's it. That's where dad knows everything. I just know how to do customer service. And I told my dad that, okay, we'll, we'll do it. And then in December, automatically customer, it's just like a, for me, it's like a faith, right?
Allan: So people just started coming in
Nikhil: December right away and December got fully packed. So that's when people start talking about it. YouTube is a big thing for me. Everything I learned is from the YouTube. And now I use ChatGPT a lot. That really helps me how to think about ideas. Whatever ideas have, I use into that and that ChatGPT helps me get the ideas to reform it nicely. So I use that a lot now, but at that time that was only YouTube.
First part is how to do customer service properly.
Allan: So you worked at, at least you had some experience.
Nikhil: I just know how, uh, what I used to do in [00:08:00] Tim's is just one, one thing. Hi there. How are you doing? I'm doing good. You just place the order and your order is on this side. That's it. Overnight. I just watch videos every night. We close it. We go home. We watch videos. So I tell dad you do your part. I promise you every customer will come. If not a one, I will make sure it comes three times a day. And there are, that happens.
Allan: So you started getting busy, but you guys had no experience.
Akhil: Oh yeah. It just, uh, yeah. Because of my dad, help us, YouTube videos, of course, yeah, and go to another restaurant, have more experience from there. And just grow yourself and grow with your family, of course, it just helps.
Allan: Obviously, there was a demand for Indian food in this part of the city, right? Right. Did you know whether there were other Indian restaurants?
Nikhil: There is no, never in the restaurant came on this side.
Allan: Well there you go, so you fulfuilled a demand that was here.
Nikhil: To be honest, we just found a spot because it's hard to find a spot. My dad didn't even look on realtor or anything. He just went to Facebook and search and things happen. That's it.
Allan: Did he pick this location becasue it's close to where you guys [00:09:00] live?
Nikhil: No, we live in the South. This is on the West end.
Allan: Oh, ok so it's not even close to your home.
Nikhil: Yes. Nothing was planned.
Allan: It sounds like you did everything wrong and you still succeeded.
Up next, despite their unorthodox beginning, Spice Circle did finally find their customers. But if you think it's smooth sailing from here, think again.
You're listening to Yes, We Are Open. Nikhil Dutt and his family opened Spice Circle in late 2019. Despite a rocky start, and young Nikhil's lack of experience in business, they seem to have found their groove, and were enjoying some early success. But then a new challenge arose to further test the family's resolve.
As expected, they got through it as a family. But then Nikhil does the unexpected. He leaves the family business. What happens next? Stay tuned to find out.
Alright, so let's talk about March. March of 2010. No one could have predicted what happened. Obviously, things shut down. What did you guys do?
Nikhil: In Manitoba, one thing is special that you close the [00:10:00] door, but you can still serve the takeout.
So at that time, our lifeline was Skip, Door Dash, Uber. And very rarely there was a pickup, but to be honest, this community is one of our special community. I can say we love this community too much. They support from the heart. It's not just like, okay, they're open. Our footage is good. And then go, no, there is a human connections before customer service or anything. They love the food. That's the big part laid in, but there is some really connection that they had to us. And it was a family business too.
Allan: How did that feel?
Akhil: Hard, you know, it was, uh, not planned. Everything was quick, everything, you know, but, uh, everyone, it was together. The whole family was together, you know, even though it's hard time, they're always together. That's how we went through, you know.
Allan: During the time of the shutdown and stuff, was there ever any discussions with you and your family about the possibility of shutting down the business? Did you ever talk about that?
Nikhil: No. We just go and stress every day, that's it. We don't talk it.
Allan: Oh,
Nikhil: you Nobody [00:11:00] talks.
Allan: They're just stressed about it.
Nikhil: Yes. It was hard to be honest, but we didn't talk about this too much.
If you talk, then you cannot open the second day again.
Allan: Right. Because negativity would have, basically you didn't talk about it. It just worked.
Nikhil: Right. It just kept on working. Because if the more you talk, the more negative you get. Right. So you
Allan: like keeping positive and by the sounds of it, your mom was also
Nikhil: Mom is part of everything.
Allan: She kept things positive too?
Nikhil: Always. She worked in a hotel. She goes early morning at four o'clock. So she comes here at four o'clock, she does the dishes and everything. She was super tired, but no one complains anything, yeah.
Allan: How long did it take for things to get back to, or are they? Are they back to normal yet? I mean, what is normal? Because you only had two months of normal and then you had to shut down.
Nikhil: So, yeah, right. So it took us one full one year after that.
Allan: About a year? Yeah. And so things got back to normal? Would you say you're back to normal?
Nikhil: Well, I cannot, no, I cannot predict it's normal because we never had one year experience to see. And the bad part is the government was only helping the [00:12:00] people, those who had one year of work. Right, yeah. And history.
Allan: You didn't have any history to show.
Nikhil: So no, no helps from the government.
Allan: You didn't even get government assistance?
Nikhil: No, nothing.
Allan: How's business now?
Nikhil: It's great. Good. Very wonderful. But our hard time was also last year too, again, because I was out of the business.
Allan: Coming out of the pandemic, Nikhil decided he needed more experience in business. So he left the family restaurant and opened the Big Bounce Park. At the time it was touted Canada's biggest outdoor inflatable theme park. Picture a 13, 000 square foot outdoor bouncy castle for kids and adults. He opened it summer of 2022 to great success, and then during the bouncy castle off season, aka winter, Nikhil worked in insurance.
While you're doing that, you're not helping in the restaurant?
Nikhil: No.
Allan: So when you were doing that business, who was doing your job?
Nikhil: My brother. He took over.
Allan: You finally get through that part, which sounds like it was a difficult time for you guys. And then Nikhil decides to start his own business.
Akhil: [00:13:00] Right.
Allan: So what did you think of that?
Akhil: I don't want him to stop. You know, that's his idea. That's what he wants to do. I let him do it. You know.
Allan: during those two years, the restaurant was floundering. The family needed a break. They wanted to return to India for a well earned vacation. Nikhil's father asked him to return to the family business. Nikhil was ready to accept the challenge.
Nikhil: Because dad told me on the face, like, uh, if we keep hunting like this, I don't think I can run it for long. And I told her that I did what I wanted to do it. And by doing whatever I did, I'm good to come back. I learned a lot of different things that use in the insurance companies and use in the entertainment business. Now I find a way how to make the restaurant that I want. entire experience to be one place. So I told that, you know what, you go home, take the mother, take my brother, let me do the experiments here.
Allan: So he left, he did his businesses for a bit. Yeah. I guess it was kind of his way to learn. Yeah. And then bring it back to the restaurant. So when he came back, how did you feel?
Akhil: Good. First, like [00:14:00] finally, you know, I got somebody who can help me more grow this business. And yeah. It was really helpful.
Nikhil: So I did some changes to the restaurant and by the time they were in back home, we boomed at that time.
Allan: So you were able to turn things around while they were in India?
Nikhil: Yes.
Allan: So you needed to go away and kind of have some more learning because you came straight out of high school.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: To run the family business.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: You needed more experience.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: And so that's how you got it. By starting these other companies.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: So when your dad asked you to come back, you were ready to come back.
Nikhil: Yes. Yeah. It has to, it's family.
Allan: What would you say would be maybe the most useful thing that you learned during that time?
Nikhil: It's a lot of things matter because we don't have an Indian community in this area. What we have is like the St. James community where we hang tight until now. And we are so proud to do that. But I realize, In order to sustain for a longer run, the big part is to make a brand.
Allan: Right.
Nikhil: So I'm still working on it. It's nothing ready yet, but I find ways how to do it. So I'm working on it still, but in the meantime, I expand the [00:15:00] customer service and the way we cook it. Uh, because in the, in the chef system, there is a one problem. It's about the taste and in order to keep the taste same consistent, I have to find a way. So I was working on it the whole time.
Allan: So you're adjusting your menus.
Nikhil: Yeah. Everything.
Allan: Make sure that every time somebody, it doesn't matter who was making it. It would taste the same.
Nikhil: So I just used to learn McDonald's. I started learning Wendy's. I started learning Tim's, yeah. Cause that's the only way to know how they keep the consistency all over the years and without any issues. But we didn't do anything what they do. What I try to do is how to keep the taste same without affecting the other stuff.
I don't know about anything numbers. I just know how to run the business and whatever my dad taught me. So when I went into financing, I learned about numbers. That's where I learned numbers. And when I talk to people, they teach me other stuff too. They say one time I went to the restaurant and they created me whatever I ordered in five minutes, it's on my table. So it's somewhere, it always connect to the restaurant. I need [00:16:00] anything I do. So whenever it connects, I then I remember I have to do something that way to my restaurant.
Allan: Coming up after the break, we find out what the future holds for Spice Circle.
Welcome back to Yes, We Are Open. Nikhil Dutt and his family have been doing a lot of learning on the job over the past four years. Most of it has been at the hands of the YouTube School of Business. But the entire time they've been learning about business the hard way, They've continued to provide delicious East Indian cuisine to Winnipeg's St. James community. Nikihil has returned to the family business and undoubtedly brought with him some big plans. What are their plans for the future? Let's find out.
You opened the restaurant probably in the worst possible time to open a restaurant. With zero experience and a pandemic coming.
Nikhil: Right.
Allan: But you guys managed to come through with it and now your business is back and you're doing really well. What does the future look like for Spice Circle?
Nikhil: Oh, Spice Circle, I have bigger aims. I have a big chart board in my home as well, but I plan because after I came back, I learned a [00:17:00] lot off of that. I want her to be like one of the McDonald's, the big companies, and I'm just working on it all day.
Allan: So you want to do like a franchise model?
Nikhil: Yes. So future you think for Spice Circle is franchising and for you, you want to be part of that?
Akhil: Oh, hell yes!
Allan: Any immediate future plans?
Nikhil: Thing is I'm already implying next month, something new, which is part of Spice Circle.
Allan: Oh yeah?
Nikhil: Yes.
Allan: Can you say anything?
Nikhil: Well, it's a food business in the short form.
Allan: That's all you can say? Okay. Well, we'll be keeping our eyes open for that.
Back in August when we spoke, Nikhil was being very coy about the news, but today I can share that the something new he's referring to is the opening of a second Spice Circle location in Osborne Village, one of Winnipeg's more popular neighborhoods. It looks like their franchising plan is well underway.
How do you feel about what you've built here?
Nikhil: What I built is not by alone, first of all. Brothers always needed in order to build something. Or, say, your siblings. You cannot stand alone. There are some things I am good at it. There are some things only my brother can do it, I cannot do it.
Allan: So you would say that you and your brother are kind of the face of the [00:18:00] The business and your parents are supporting you from
Nikhil: right, but without dad, it's not possible because he is the key feature of our food.
First of all, I will say thank you to my mother and dad because we don't know business and neither do they know, but the, however we started, we started. But whatever they did is really thankful, because when we came here, it's through that, because we don't know what we are doing in our life, too. My mom is the one who guided me to do the business, because she says something seriously, I took it, and after that I started working on it.
I don't know where my future will end at that time. But now I know what to do in the future plans. Yeah, on that perspective, yes, I just want to say thank you. They're just happy when your kids are able to run your home or, in our, in our culture, that's how they say it.
Allan: Thank you very much for your time .
Nikhil: No, no problem.
Allan: Is Spice Circle open?
All: Yes, we are open!
Allan: That's the story of Spice Circle.
I've spoken in the past about the importance of familial support and entrepreneurship. In the first episode of this season, in fact, [00:19:00] we heard the story of 19 year old Ashley Lyons, convincing her family to go into business with her on an escape room. And what a huge help that familial support was for her business.
This week, we kind of had the opposite. We have a parent convincing the children to go into the restaurant business with them. It's crazy to see Nikhil's journey from being a reluctant participant to leaving the family business altogether to returning to help save the family business. I applaud his courage to do that.
It couldn't have been easy given how close that family is. I'm also impressed with his self awareness, that in order to learn what he needed to learn to be of service to his family, he needed to leave. When he came back, he was finally ready to take on the challenge and responsibility.
So will he succeed?
Well, only time will tell. As much as he might disagree with me, there is no YouTube channel that will foresee that outcome. But with the hard work and support of his family, I'd say he's got a better chance than most. Who knows, one day we may be talking about the 1000th Spice Circle franchise opening in a town near you.[00:20:00]
Oh, and by the way, you know I tried their food. I had their curry goat, and it was amazing. That local franchise couldn't come fast enough.
Yes, we were open as a Moneris podcast production. I'd like to thank Akhil and Nikhil for taking the time to share their story. You can learn more about Spice Circle at spicecircle.ca. Follow them on Facebook @vipduttspicecircle. And on Instagram, they're @spicecircle_.
Please support this podcast by telling a friend or rate us wherever you get your podcasts.
If you're a Canadian small business owner or know of one with an interesting story of perseverance to tell? I'd love to help tell it. You can contact me at podcast@moneris.com.
Tune in next week for another story of small business struggle and survival on the "Yes, We Are Open" podcast.
I'm Al Grego. Thank you for listening.