Al’s next stop in Alberta is beautiful Canmore, home of Sara and Joe Titus, owners of Going With The Grain. For almost 20 years Sara and Joe have been installing and restoring Hardwood floors in the Canmore area. They are one of only two husband & wife teams in North America to hold the designation of ‘Bona Certified Craftsmen’. All this to say, they know their craft! Throughout their 20 years of business, Sara and Joe have encountered many struggles. From building their brand when they opened, to a recession, to unpredictable scheduling issues, to increasing material costs, their business can be volatile. How have they managed? Listen to find out.
Al’s next stop in Alberta is beautiful Canmore, home of Sara and Joe Titus, owners of Going With The Grain. For almost 20 years Sara and Joe have been installing and restoring hardwood floors in the Canmore area. They are one of only two husband & wife teams in North America to hold the designation of ‘Bona Certified Craftsmen’. All this to say, they know their craft!
Throughout their 20 years of business, Sara and Joe have encountered many struggles. From building their brand when they opened, to a recession, to unpredictable scheduling issues, to increasing material costs, their business can be volatile.
How have they managed? Listen to find out.
You can learn more about Going With The Grain at goingwiththegrain.ca.
Allan: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, I'm Al Grego, and this is the Yes We Are Open podcast.
Day three of my Alberta trip. This morning I was in Banff visiting with Ken McMurdo for Mountain Chocolates. You heard that story in last week's episode. After having a pleasant lunch in Banff, I climbed into Bigfoot and headed back east toward Calgary, along the Trans Canada Highway just 20 minutes to the nearby town of Canmore, Alberta, nestled in the heart of the Bow River Valley, approximately 80 kilometers west of Calgary.
Founded in 1884, Canmore was named by the Canadian Pacific Railway director Donald A. Smith after Malcolm III of Scotland, who is also nicknamed Canmore. The name is of Gaelic origin and it means Big Chief. In 1886, Queen [00:01:00] Victoria granted a coal mining charter to the town and the number one mine was opened a year later.
The coal mining industry boomed in Canmore well into the 20th century. In 1965, Canmore was incorporated as a village with 2, 000 residents and a year later it was incorporated as a town. But by 1970, the coal market was diminished and Canmore Mines Limited closed in 1979, causing the local economy to suffer.
Until the announcement of the 1988 Calgary Winter Olympics, which named Canmore the host of the Nordic events. This brought tourism, and Canmore developed into the recreational tourist destination it is today. Today, Canmore has a population of over 15, 000. It's the ninth largest town in Alberta. The economy continues to rely on tourism and construction.
It's a mecca for outdoor enthusiasts, offering activities such as hiking, climbing, kayaking, canoeing, and caving. It's the official home to the Canadian National Cross Country Skiing and Biathlon teams. [00:02:00] But the construction industry is why I'm in Canmore this afternoon. Canmore has the lowest vacancy rate in Canada for rental properties, causing housing prices to soar.
Due to its location, adjacent to provincial and national parkland, and being in an area designated as a wildlife corridor, attempts to curb further development have met resistance from local developers and the growing demand for more housing. It's a constant struggle between developers and local government.
So while there's still some construction, there's also a lot of renovation being done. And many of the newer developments were built with sustainable development in mind, which is just fine for the folks I'm about to visit. And the subject of this week's story going with the grain.
That's Sarah Titus, one of the owners of going with the grain hardwood flooring. I picked her up downtown and she took me to a job site where her husband Joe Titus is currently working on a [00:03:00] client's home. We're standing in the client's driveway on a quiet residential street. Across the road are more houses, but behind them, seemingly in their backyards, are the Rocky Mountains.
It's a spectacular view.
Sara: I know, right? Welcome to Canmore. Wow.
Allan: Sarah points out each peak and names them.
Sara: Okay. Three sisters. Uh, Lawrence Grassy Ridge, Miner's Peak, Howling Peak, and then we move into East End of Rundle.
Allan: You have to like
Sara: learn this in school? I don't know, I didn't grow up here.
Allan: Joe finally comes outside to let us know he's ready.
Yeah, I'm Al. Hi, nice to meet you, I'm Joe. Nice to meet you, Joe. He leads us into the client's home, which is a Nordic style raised bungalow. I'm led upstairs into a great room with large west facing windows looking out at the mountains. It's a breathtaking view. Wow.
Joe: Oh, I love it. Well, I never get tired of it, actually.
And every, every house I'm in has a view, right?
Allan: Do you get tired of this?
Joe: Because It doesn't. I don't. No? And sometimes I'm in the corners [00:04:00] looking at the floor, but if I look out the window Yeah. I realize what I'm surrounded by. It's crazy.
Allan: The great room is open concept with a large stone fireplace on the south wall.
Towards the back of the room is a large kitchen and dining room area, all open concept, all with unfinished hardwood floor. This is Joe's latest job. Joe gives me a quick rundown of all the work he's done to this floor and all the work still left to do.
Joe: This is birch, uh, was uh, pre finished, uh, originally.
And, um, it was redone once before I I made it here, and there was a little bit of water damage in the kitchen. Oh,
Allan: okay, so you sanded it down, and you're gonna re And then I set up in the great room with Joe and Sarah for our interview. When did going with the green start?
Joe: Well, it's interesting. Uh, we're a couple of days away from actually 19 years.
So March 15, 2005. So we're right there. This will be our 20th year of business coming up. [00:05:00] For your report. We're both from New Brunswick, and we moved out to Calgary, and I was looking for work and adventure and, you know, seeing the country. First stop was Vancouver Island, but that was a quick stop, and then got to Calgary.
Work was not a problem in Calgary, there was plenty of activity on the go back in 97. But there was less than 1 percent vacancy. So the challenge was, where were we going to call home? And, uh, yeah. We just happened to be a pivotal point. We were at the place we were renting and I met a few fellas doing hardwood flooring.
I wasn't exactly looking for work in that field at the time, but he said, well, if you are still looking for work, give me a shout. And we exchanged numbers and it was definitely a pivotal point. They taught me the tricks of the trade and to this day, the boss, I still know him and he's a great friend. He's been a great mentor through the phases because Sometimes I'd be faced with a certain scenario on site and I could call him and he's been there a hundred times.
So they, he did over 30 years in business. So it's been a, the hardwood helpline I was able to call. [00:06:00] I had the name of the business before the business existed. And I,
Sara: the
Joe: first line of the book going with the grain and yeah, it was based on a mindset and a go with the flow and the grain reference to the wood and it's catchy and it stays with people.
And I'm very happy to see that it was not removed. registered as a business name once we got the domain and everything was rolling.
So I've been 97 when I, when I first started doing the work, spent close to five years with the crew in Calgary, and then we moved out here and I did dabble in a couple other fields of work with in mind, I was on, you know, in my back pocket that get the van and the tools and get running under our name.
And it was nice to go somewhere new and not be direct competition of the people who trained me. So we went down the road and. This is a happy little bubble in this town and a smaller town. Calgary's got a million plus now and we're,
Allan: we're, but it's a smaller town, but it looks like it's [00:07:00] growing by leaps and bounds here.
Bursting. Yeah. I talked about when you guys first moved here, what was it like?
Joe: So that was, uh, uh, New Year's Eve though. Next day was 2002. So. That exact evening was like, I was kind of asking, where did we move to? Because there was fireworks going off and there was a horse and sleigh going around the block and there's like a party down at the pond roasting hot dogs.
They were like, do I move into a snow globe?
Sara: And the fireworks, when they go off against the mountains and line up all the mountains and the snow caps. And yeah, it sort of ridiculous. It was ridiculous. It was pretty awesome, but very small. And when we drove along the road, you see. new builds and they were all minors home.
So that process has changed. We go away for a week and come back and there'd be a new big building here. So things have definitely started to shift and there's still a growth pattern. We're looking at doubling our population in the community over the next 10 years. Would you
Allan: say Canmore is a great place then to bring a family
Sara: up?
Absolutely. Yeah, adventures and interesting things. And [00:08:00] yeah, yeah. Well, even, you know, our daughter was an competitive athlete. She was struggling with injuries and some other stuff. And she was talking to me and I thought, Oh, geez, we know somebody who's had similar adversity. And so he called up her friend who just also happens to be an Olympic gold medalist.
And, you know, yeah, exactly. And the therapy is available. And yeah, there's always an adventure. There's always something new. There's always somebody to challenge you to. To learn something else and you're close enough to a big airport where you can get out and travel and see other things in the world too.
Allan: So you spent five years kind of apprenticing, learning the ropes and then starting the business. I mean, did you have a background in business or was this something all new?
Joe: No, I knew that I had this skill for the craft. And I thought okay if we get one tool at a time and get plugging away here and as long as I make more than I was making working for someone else was the first mindset.
I knew I had the skill and could get good [00:09:00] results with the jobs and just went from there. Yeah the first year was very tough after sinking the money into the tools and you work hard all year and you're trying to get a You do have to prove yourself, even though, you know, I'm Joe from down the road and I can sand wood while they, they want to see it.
You got to get a chance. And I was knocking on some doors and knocking on the builder's doors.
Allan: In terms of competition, how much competition was there around here?
Joe: Yeah, there's only a couple of companies doing exactly. This is a niche kind of thing. So there's quite a few installers that can put wood in or laminate or vinyl.
The refinishers are a smaller group. Right. Okay. So
Allan: you built it up slowly during this time. Were you helping with the business?
Sara: Yeah. I was always helping with the business right from the beginning, registering it, you know, the domain names, more of the administrative side of things. I was always fully hands on. I did keep a full time job for the first year, maybe year and a half that we were in business and then returned to part time work after our, you know, there's, there's parenting in [00:10:00] there.
Yeah. Yeah. So once we had that sort of figured out and our daughter was in school, yeah, but I've always either been in the background or sometimes in the foreground, depending on. Um, what's going on? Are
Allan: you getting the standard going yourself?
Sara: I am. Yeah. We're both bonus certified craftsmen together.
We're the only ones. Yeah. Yeah. So we're, there are only two husband and wife duos in North America, I think that are bonus certified craftsmen and we are one of them. That's great.
Allan: Yeah. How many staff do you have?
Joe: We are the team. I'm looking at you. Yeah, we're here.
Sara: We have had staff. We've had summer students, we've had employees, we've had subcontractors, you know, we've done a few different things and yeah, we've done
Joe: multi unit buildings and that's where we built it up to a bigger team.
Sort of doing one job a week now. You move in, get it all done, you meet new people each week and move on to the next one. Yeah, so would you
Allan: say most of your work is renos, like not new builds? Correct. [00:11:00]
Joe: The earlier years there was a lot of new build in town, but I've definitely focused more on renovations these days.
I prefer that. Yeah, I do prefer that. And it was good to go through the multi unit. It was like a compressed hardwood course of business for me, so. Uh, took that and I like the renovation scene and it's a lot of time, it's people that are staying and that's my favorite job is when you're coming in and it's satisfying to take something old, make it look like new again and you know that these people are going to live here for years to come.
Allan: It sounds like you did it the old fashioned way. You bought a tool, paid it off, bought another tool, paid that off. Pay yourself while doing that, and do the business stuff, right?
Joe: Yes, and then, once I get a couple jobs done, and then word of mouth can travel fast in a small town. And that goes both ways. You have to keep the good word going, so.
Uh, bad word could travel fast too, so. I keep it in a way that I can wave to anybody down Main [00:12:00] Street, and just make sure. Sometimes there's bumps along the way, but you make sure to smooth it out, and that's
Allan: And here you're working in your own neighborhood, so you gotta be confident in your work if you want to do that.
Because neighbors talk.
Sara: Yeah, well we run into people in the grocery store and neighbors do talk. It was great. I walked home from lunch.
Joe: That doesn't happen everyday though. It doesn't happen
Sara: everyday. I would say the other thing as well, if you do the math, so our daughter is 20, our business is 19.
Allan: Right.
Sara: So we did all of this while raising a child. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. We tried it. Run a business, be a dad, juggle.
Sara: Yeah, she was about 18 months old when we started the business, I think. You definitely have
Joe: to believe in where you're going because early days after the tools are paid and after everything goes out at the end of the year, you know, only made 3, left in the bag, not much in the fridge.
You can only go up from there, right? And it has only gone up from there, but sometimes when it gets to be The [00:13:00] peak of, Oh, where is it going to go? And then everything starts getting better. So you got to believe in it.
As much as I did know, I have learned so much. And when the floor is at this stage, it's like a new canvas and it could be any color. Yeah. So each week the job is. Somewhat the same, but then there's a new look to it, a new staining method. Sometimes there was wire brushed that became a fad for a while. He had to create the texture,
Allan: the stressed look.
I'm like, are you sure you want to do that? Cause I'm going to have a hard time sending that out in about 10 years when it's no longer.
Sara: We've taken chains and nails to floors. We've had a session, anger management session where yeah, yeah, we've taken chains and hammers and nails to floors.
Joe: Well, wasn't that painful for you thinking in 10 years?
I was water damaging the floor while I was beating it with a chain because I was crying at the same
Sara: time.
Joe: Why am I doing
Sara: this?
Joe: This is what they asked me to do.
Sara: Stain [00:14:00] floor is blue, like an ink blue. I was just going to ask,
Allan: everyone asks to do something to a 4N, and you're like, that's a bad idea, but you do it because, you know, that's what the customer wants.
Yeah. Yeah,
Joe: it's been fun, and I enjoy the art of it. There's definitely an art side to it, and uh, I get satisfaction at the end as I'm doing a final coat, I'm walking out the door, I realize what it was when I came in the door, and I'm like, I do take a moment and smile before I get back in the van. And I'd say your favorite
Sara: word is wow.
That's his favorite. Yeah.
Allan: I imagine that would be very gratifying.
I'm sure Sarah and Joe have heard wow. Plenty of times in their past 20 years of business, but that's a long time to go in business without challenges. So what have been the biggest challenges facing going with the green in the past two decades? Stay tuned to find out.[00:15:00]
You're listening to Yes We Are Open. Sarah and Joe Titus moved to Alberta from New Brunswick over 20 years ago looking for work and adventure. They found both in their new hometown of Canmore. Where they started going with the grain hardwood flooring. But it hasn't all been snow globes and fireworks.
Like with any new business, there are challenges and growing pains. So how did they fare? Let's find out. Talk about some of the greatest struggles you've had with the company.
Joe: Yeah, I would say getting going and getting established and proving yourself and pounding the pavement, paying your dues, kind of showing what you got.
I think a lot of businesses are like that. And um, The recession was tough too, I mean that 2015? Yes, things did get tight during that time. And I think some of the struggle can just be an unknown variable, because we are in the program, and then if other trades or other things happen, then throw the timing off.
And like the schedules, uh, Biggest challenge, I guess, maybe not a [00:16:00] struggle, but a challenge because it's always evolving and changing. And there's just so many variables that can change that as much as you can write it down on the calendar. So then you got to roll with it. And sometimes all of a sudden there's two jobs in one week where you had two jobs in two weeks before.
So. You still gotta do it and that's the determination when you just dig in and make it happen, so. Right.
Allan: A
Joe: lot of late night sanding. Yes, there's been 90 day stretches, seven days a week. I've been doing floors at three in the morning when it comes down to it. Sometimes I'm calculating the hours of when it'll be dry and when I can sleep and get back and do the next coat.
Sara: Okay, I'll cook a hot meal and drive it up and say, you know what? You need to eat. You need to keep fuel. And then, you know, pack the toddler in the car, drive up a hot meal. You got to eat, bring the dishes home and keep sanding the floor till two in the morning. And you just, you have to do what it takes.
And you know, things do [00:17:00] happen, right? There can be contamination. There can be product issues. You know, something happens at stage seven. You have to go back to stage two and then you're three days behind and it's not two square feet. You're talking upwards of 3000 square feet. And to move backwards in 3000 square feet is Yeah, I'd
Joe: say if you're humming along and then one of the tools breaks down, that's just a unforeseen and uh, they're specialized.
So you just can't go down to a rental store and get exactly that. What about, um, material
Allan: costs? I know they've gone up quite a bit since the pandemic.
Joe: Yes. So that's, I think everybody understands, but I've definitely had to explain that to a few customers and the prices aren't what they used to be. And we're all becoming affected and we're actually running out of stuff and the mills are running and it's coming from further away and it's higher demand and higher prices.
So
Sara: the VOC rules, you know, when Joe first started, you were using oil based products without any protection, right? So now we're using water based, lower VOCs, the way it's packaged, the way it's set, the way it's labeled, [00:18:00] the protection we wear, the ventilators, all of those things that you learn and adapt.
And product development has been huge and Joe's really great. I throw a new product at her every once in a while or a new tool, and I'm researching it and watching videos and saying, okay, I'm throwing this product at you. This is what I think it's going to do, but what it might actually do. Yeah. Very
Joe: comfortable.
Someone's like doing interviews.
Allan: Was there ever a point where the two of you had to sit down and have that go, no, go conversations? Like, you know, if we don't get to this point by the end of the month, maybe we got to look at something else or was there ever anything like that?
Joe: Yes, uh, there's been a few times with those conversations and I think Ray, when you feel like, Oh, we're, uh, this is a tough point here.
The phone rings with a great job. And then all of a sudden, boom, you're back out there and then you're booking for months ahead. [00:19:00] And it just, It just has a weird flow sometimes that's unpredictable. You're busy, busy, busy, busy, and then you get this little gap and you think, what's going on here?
Sara: Yeah.
Joe: You got to learn how to take a holiday and enjoy it and not worry about work sometimes.
So yeah.
Sara: Right before our tenure, uh, in business, we didn't have a logo. We didn't really advertise. We didn't have very much as far that would just strictly marketing strategies. It was word of mouth. We didn't have a website. We just, yeah, went off. We had one little business card in the local paper and that's kind of how we rolled.
And it was like, are we going to keep doing this? Are we not? We sat down, we talked about it. And when we decided we were going to do it, we're like, okay, well, let's do it. So we got the logo and the band and then the new tools. And now we're coming up on 20 years. And just two months ago, we had this conversation again.
What is, you know, 20 years is a long time to do anything. And what does that look like moving forward? forward, we're now 20 years older and it's a very physical job. And I don't know
Allan: about you, but my knees aren't the same. And, uh, this is a very kneely job. Hey, it is. Yeah. I
Sara: would say that's a struggle too, right?
Where it's just us and we [00:20:00] don't have a team. If something goes sideways medically for either one of us, that can stop the show.
This is where I insert all of my feelings about this, and I don't know if I mentioned this or not, if you've seen this in some of my stuff, is that the environmental sustainability of sanding and finishing established floors, hardwood flooring, traditional hardwood flooring is the only carbon neutral floor covering available.
It takes about 60 years to grow a tree. If you take good care of a floor, it'll last a hundred years, it'll last longer than we will. We use dust management systems, we use low VOC products. We're really mindful of even what we use for paint tray liners, how we recycle all the cardboard, all of those things.
We're really cognizant of keeping our environmental impact low because construction traditionally is not kind environmentally. So it's very wasteful. And that was one thing as well. When we carry a Banff National Park business license as well, so we can do [00:21:00] work within the park itself. So that was a big thing that I was speaking of when I was applying for that because it is important and we want to leave some things behind.
Passing on the knowledge is huge too because it's a very niche industry. It's very unique. I think it's one that not a lot of people know about. How do we, you know, pass on that knowledge to the generation? And how do you get somebody to say, Hey, do you want to show up to work? It's really loud. It's really dirty.
And so, you know, it's smelly and you're going to work big hours, but you know, it looks awesome. Yeah. But there, but it is a craft
Allan: during any kind of time of struggle or any time at all, like building your business. Was there anything Moneris did to help you with your business?
Sara: Well, I mean, the fact that we can process transactions and get people to pay us is a win anytime. Actually, uh, interesting. We just changed from our traditional, uh, point of sale hardware [00:22:00] into the virtual.
So now where our payments are less of the daily smaller purchases or the more large transactions. Yeah. And our customer a couple weeks ago was in Belize, but we were doing their floor. We finished the floor, we fired off an email and they were able to click on the link and pay with their credit card and came home.
The floors were done and we got paid. It was great.
Allan: What a time to
Joe: be alive.
Sara: Exactly. What a time to be alive. Thank you, web. I would almost say 50 percent
Joe: of the time people go away and then, so being able to accept payment while they're away and not wait until their holiday's over keeps everything rolling.
So that's, uh, it's a good thing. I
Sara: mean, it's been great even using the app on the phone, you know. I'll be going my way to Calgary, pull over in a safe spot, plug in the credit card number. But this way, yeah, it's evolving as our business is evolving.
Allan: Coming up after the break, we find out what the future holds for Going With The Grain.
Cass: [00:23:00] Success in business doesn't come without moments of struggle. Moments when you had to face your challenges head on. As the proud partner of Canadian business, Moneris plays a Critical role in empowering businesses with the payment processing tools they need to succeed.
Together we are building stronger businesses where business owners everywhere can stand up to their challenges without slowing down. Manis proud partner of Canadian business.
Allan: Welcome back to Yes, we Are Open. Sarah and Joe Titus have successfully built a solid hardwood flooring business through skill, determination, and a lot of hard work. And they've done it essentially as a team of two. So what does the future hold for going with the grain? Could there be help on the horizon?
Let's find out. You mentioned you're about to celebrate 19 years. But yeah, I don't know about your knees, but my knees ache just looking at the work you're about to do here. So future outlook, what are your plans for going with the [00:24:00] grain moving forward? For example, is your daughter interested in
Joe: taking over?
She might be. Oh! She's taking kinesiology. Maybe that's why we're planning ahead with her. But, as I get older with the knees.
Allan: Yes,
Joe: and not huge growth, but growth would be good. Uh, it would be nice to have a two person team on site. And then I could get to the finishing coats where I could overlook the prep work that's been done.
And then eventually if I get someone that's, uh, keen to go start to finish, then I could be more the manager and lining things up. And the
Sara: teacher. The teacher. You have a lot of knowledge. His knowledge is Yes, I would say we're getting into working smarter, not harder as we age. And
Joe: I would enjoy that down the road, being a teacher with this.
And yes, I would like to find someone interested that wants to make a career in this. I'm not sure where they live, but
Allan: you're putting it out there. So now, you know, maybe it will happen. What about you, Sarah? What would you like to see out of the [00:25:00] business for over the next 20 years? Now that you're first one year in the bag.
Sara: I am excited to see the industry continue and to continue to grow. And. Learning and passing on that knowledge as well. And more of the business side. I really, I love the business side of it. It's really fantastic because my strengths, uh, and weaknesses are sort of the opposites of what Joe's are. And yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. I love the administrative, the business, the strategic planning, the product development side of things. And. You know, Joe's happier to do the labor. And so continuing on that trajectory and getting in touch with people who know things about, and not having to do it all on our own. We really have done the bulk of the work in the last 19 years on our own without reaching out for help.
So asking for those people to help us and implement strategies that just make it easier and more smooth running.
Allan: So 19 years in looking at what you've built with this business.
Joe: [00:26:00] I feel very proud of the process and the trail and the chapters we've gone through. Very proud of the business.
Sara: Just all my work. Proud was absolutely the first word that I came up. Yeah. We're proud and we've worked together so well and continue to and yeah, I think sometimes we, and not often enough, we don't stop and take a look at some of the accomplishments that we've achieved over the years and some of the cool places we've worked in and the interesting things we've done.
And when you stop and go, Oh yeah, that's pretty cool. And it was really self directed the whole way. It was blood, sweat, and tears, quite literally. To
Joe: survive and thrive in this beautiful place.
Sara: We make good choices, but I mean, as you can imagine, a place that's so pretty. A lot of other people want to live here and there's a lot of economic factors involved in that.
Yeah. And it's not been without its challenges, but, uh, certainly has had its rewards as well.[00:27:00]
Allan: Joe and Sarah is going with the grain open. Yes, we are open. Perfect.
That's the story of going with the grain. Partnerships. It seems trite to say they can get messy. Now I don't think it's a huge revelation to say that the two critical keys to any successful partnership are trust and communication. You're welcome. I also think it's helpful when the members of the partnership compliment each other's strengths.
Now, you could take those last two sentences, substitute the word partnership with marriage, and they'd still be true. That's why the partnership that makes up Going With The Grain seems to work so well. And not just because they're married. I had a lot of fun during my visit with Sarah and Joe. Watching them together in the interview, I witnessed that trust and communication first hand.
And if you believe their story, and I have no reason to doubt it, They [00:28:00] compliment each other's strengths perfectly. That's why I think they make such a great partnership. And yes, Sarah does like to push Joe out of his comfort zone. On our drive to the job site, Sarah admitted to me the interview was her idea, and Joe wasn't keen to do it.
But he was great! They both were! And by the end, Joe admitted to me that he was glad he did it. I think it's just this kind of support and cooperation that makes it worth it. Sarah and Joe such a great team and the reason why I think going with the grain will go as far as they want to take it.
Yes, we were open as a Menera's podcast production. I'd like to thank Sarah and Joe for taking the time to share their story. You can learn more about going with the grain at going with the grain dot c a follow them on Facebook and Instagram at going Going with the grain can more, please support this podcast by writing us a review on Apple podcasts or rate us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
If you're a Canadian small business owner or [00:29:00] know of one with an interesting story of perseverance to tell, we'd love to help tell it. You can contact me at podcast at maneras. com. Tune in next week for another story of small business struggle and survival on the Yes, We're Open podcast. I'm Al Grego.
Thank you for listening.