Episode 1, Season 2: Climb Base5 Coquitlam, BC In the Season 2 premier of ‘Yes, We Are Open’ Al goes to Coquitlam BC to visit Danielle Poggi (she/they), Owner and President of Climb Base5, a pair of indoor rock climbing gyms in the Greater Vancouver area. Climb Base5 has been the indoor climber’s premiere choice in Vancouver since 2002, but gyms were some of the hardest hit businesses during the pandemic. How did Climb Base5 navigate the lockdown and all the restrictions? Listen to find out.
You can learn more about Climb Base5 at climbbase5.com.
Al Grego:
April 2022, year two of the pandemic. It's incredible to think that when all this began, we believed we'd be out of it in a few weeks. Those weeks have turned into months and months into ... well ... you know? When I started this podcast last October, many of the stories we told in Season 1 were the effect of the pandemic on small Canadian businesses. Human stories of struggle and perseverance. Stories of dreams being threatened, then realized. Stories of families and communities coming together and trying to figure things out for each other.
Al Grego:
A lot can be learned from failure and mistakes, but a lot can also be learned from successes. And unlike the former, the latter comes with the added benefit of motivation and inspiration. It's why I love doing this podcast series. So now we begin Season 2 with eight new Canadian businesses and eight new stories. I hope you'll find them just as motivational and inspirational listening as I did recording them. As always, these are stories with happy endings, but also hard learned lessons. I'm telling them with the hope that if you're an entrepreneur with a business or the dream of starting your own business, you might learn some valuable lessons from these survivors. Hello, everyone. I'm Al Grego. And this is Season 2 of the Yes, We Are Open podcast.
Steward:
It's our pleasure to welcome you to Vancouver. The local time is 5:17.
Al Grego:
It's my first time in Vancouver, BC, and I'm pretty excited. Last season, Saskatchewan had been the furthest west I had ever traveled. Now I couldn't go any further without crossing the Pacific. The take-off from Toronto was one of the rockiest that I'd ever experienced on a flight. An unseasonably warm March day yielded some very high winds at Pearson. But all that's been forgotten because for the past 90 minutes, I've been treated to some of the most spectacular aerial views of the Canadian Rockies. And as if by contrast, the landing in Vancouver was one of the smoothest I'd ever experienced. With little delay, I pick up my rental and cross the Moray Bridge to my hotel in Richmond. Tomorrow I head to my first stop in Coquitlam.
Al Grego:
Coquitlam, BC is one of municipalities comprising Metro Vancouver. With a population of over 140,000, it's the sixth largest city in the province. A largely suburban city, some of its major business sectors include: technology, manufacturing, and tourism.
Al Grego:
Today, I'm in South Coquitlam, just off the Trans Canada Highway near the Fraser River for my visit with the subject of our first story, Climb Base 5. Located in an industrial park, Climb Base 5 is one of three main tenants of a large white and blue building with ample parking. The other tenants are a dance studio and a gymnastics club, which means a lot of activity on evenings and weekends, but it's early Monday afternoon. So right now, things are a little quiet.
Al Grego:
I follow the signage that leads me to the back of the building and the entrance to Climb Base 5. Upon entering, the first thing that strikes me is the height of the space. Now, obviously, it being a climbing gym you'd expect height, but seeing it in person is something else. The walls are 42 feet high. And according to the owner, Danielle Poggi, there are 15,000 square feet of climbing, both bouldering and ropes with eight auto belayer devices, 80 routes and 55 boulders. Now I don't know what most of that means, but it does sound impressive.
Jing:
Hello.
Al Grego:
Hi.
Jing:
Can I help you?
Al Grego:
I'm looking for Danielle.
Jing:
Oh yeah. Just one second.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Jing:
Yeah, you can come in.
Al Grego:
That was Jeanne. She's one of the course instructors. She takes me to Danielle. Thank you.
Danielle Poggi:
Hi.
Al Grego:
How are you?
Danielle Poggi:
Nice to meet you.
Al Grego:
Nice to meet you too. I'm Al.
Danielle Poggi:
Come on in.
Al Grego:
Danielle leads me into her office. This is where we set up for our interview.
Danielle Poggi:
My name is Danielle Poggi, owner and president of Climb Base 5.
Al Grego:
When was Climb Base 5 founded?
Danielle Poggi:
Climb Base 5 was founded six years ago. And previous to that, the facility, itself, has been around for close to 20 years now. Six years ago, I had a business partner and we decided to part ways. So we rebranded the business with a whole new vision and mission of what we were going to provide to climbing and to people in the community.
Danielle Poggi:
We ... I had a really good relationship with my business partner. At the same time, the business was struggling. I'd say the economy, in general, was struggling at that time. And there was a lot of construction in the area and the business wasn't doing well.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
So my partner at that time executed a buyout clause. I had the right of first refusal. But he had put a price tag on the business, which actually forced me to purchase it at that elevated price. And at the time, the business wasn't valued at that price at all whatsoever. We were losing membership base and customers to other facilities and, in general, it wasn't doing very well. So that was a real moment of reckoning. Going, am I going to put all this money in this business that's not doing well.
Danielle Poggi:
You know. That was challenging. It was my baby, really. I built this facility with my hands, quite literally, and I was very much a part of the community as a climber.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
And to walk away from that was very difficult. So I decided that I was all in. Fully committed to creating something new for that business. And at the time I didn't really know what that was.
Danielle Poggi:
That was a period of discovery and inquiry for myself to really reach out to people in the community. But not only people in the community, but just people in business, in general. So I went on a mission of speaking to a person in a leadership role every day for the next 30 days, just to find out what their mission and vision was for their business and how they got to that place. So I was interviewing people.
Al Grego:
What gave you that idea?
Danielle Poggi:
I think I was starting to do some of my own personal development and I realized that there were blind spots in areas of my life, things that I just wasn't aware of and didn't know. And if I was going to grow the business, I would have to reach out to others to see, what am I missing? I'm just going to have to learn something. So that was a great opportunity just to get really related to people and learn what it was that inspired them.
Al Grego:
How long have you been working here?
Jing:
About seven and a half years.
Al Grego:
Seven and a half years?
Jing:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
So you were here before Client Base?
Jing:
Yes.
Al Grego:
Yes.
Jing:
Oh, no, actually working. I think I just become at Base 5, I started work as a belayer part-time.
Al Grego:
Yeah. Okay.
Jing:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
And how do you like it?
Jing:
Oh, very much. This year right now, I'm still here.
Al Grego:
Yeah. What's your favorite part of this?
Jing:
The community.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Jing:
Definitely. All the regular climbers they hear regular time is like a family now.
Al Grego:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jing:
If we don't see someone some days, we actually had to ask, like "I miss them."
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Jing:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
What, what was your background before the business?
Danielle Poggi:
I'm a climber.
Al Grego:
So-
Danielle Poggi:
Fully through and through.
Al Grego:
You took what you knew and you made a business out of it.
Danielle Poggi:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
That's great. Then that makes a lot of sense. But what you didn't have was maybe some of the leadership or the business acumen to go with it.
Danielle Poggi:
Sure. I would say there are a lot of things that I've learned along the way in the last six years of which leadership and acumen are definitely some of those things. I think there's also other things that I'm still learning like sales and marketing, for that matter.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
Because climbing is a very unique activity and it's not like there's a lot of climbing facilities, but we are in competition with other types of sports and activities that people want to do as well. So I think we're diving deeper into what it is that climbing is. And as much as we love climbing, for the climbing that it is, we actually realize now that we don't just sell climbing. That there are other aspects of the business that we really do.
Al Grego:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Danielle Poggi:
So how do we connect people to that?
Michelle:
My name is Michelle and I'm the program director at Climb Base 5.
Al Grego:
Great. [crosstalk 00:08:12] And how long have you been working here?
Michelle:
I have been working, well, with Base 5 for three years because that is when our other location became a Base 5. But prior to that, I have been at that location since 2008.
Al Grego:
Well, what's your favorite part about working?
Michelle:
Oh my goodness. I have to pick just one thing.
Al Grego:
Yeah. We'll just ask Danielle. Now you don't have to say it's working for Danielle,
Michelle:
Obviously, it's working for Danielle. No, I think my favorite part about working here is the people, which sounds like a total cop out answer. But I don't just mean the people I work with, but actually the people that I get to coach, whether it's kids or adults. It's really rewarding to be able to help somebody push past any obstacle that might be. And it's a very individual thing. And so it's really exciting to be able to facilitate that for people and just watch them grow their passion for the sport as a result of that.
Al Grego:
That's cool.
Michelle:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
I imagine ... This is my first time in BC, but I imagine in this area, climbing is probably a pretty popular past time or sport, right?
Danielle Poggi:
There's a connection to the mountains and the outdoors.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
Absolutely.
Al Grego:
So is there a lot of competition?
Danielle Poggi:
More so in the last few years.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
Definitely the last few last five years, there's been a lot more facilities that have opened up. We're seeing growth throughout North America.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
And especially in the East Coast of Canada, very strong. Yeah, it is a growing activity, a growing sport. And with the recognition with the Olympics and other movies that you see on Netflix or in Hollywood these days, a lot of people are gaining interest in the activity.
Michelle:
I think that we're very committed to every single person having the best possible experience and recognizing that doesn't look the same for everybody. So for some people, it might be that they really just want to climb easy things and that's all they want to do. Others really want to train and take classes and be involved. Others just want to come in, put their headphones in, and just do their own thing. So, and we're really committed to making sure that there is an environment. And then from a program side, there is something for everybody. And if there isn't, we will make something.
Al Grego:
Sure.
Michelle:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
Talk about this facility. So I walk in and I noticed this-
Danielle Poggi:
Oh, great.
Al Grego:
The tumbling gym for, and lots of kids around here. And there's obviously your climbing gym upstairs. You have a dance studio. How do you all get along?
Danielle Poggi:
How do we all get along? That's a great question. I think whenever there are business owners, they have ideas on how they're going to run.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
So ... Yes, to create synergy and connection in three small business owners can be challenging, absolutely. In the area that we're in, we're recognized as a community center. Other than the public community centers that the city provides, we are the largest facility and have comparably the same usage as those facilities as well.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
Daily, our facility alone sees in excess of 200 climbers.
Al Grego:
Wow.
Danielle Poggi:
And the same would be true for the dance studio and the gymnastic studio. Even more, actually, because they're larger facilities than we are.
Al Grego:
How many locations?
Danielle Poggi:
Well, we have two locations. We've grown our businesses. There was a lot of room of growth at that period, and now we're reaching capacity at both those locations.
Al Grego:
What's the most rewarding part for you, personally.
Michelle:
Ooh. Just one thing.
Al Grego:
A couple.
Michelle:
I think it's seeing people love it so much that they want to give back. So coaching our youth team, and then they say to me, "Well, can I work here?" Can I teach the little kid programs? Or people who are members, and then they end up working at the desk or they end up wanting to teach other adults. That is the most rewarding thing because that tells me that whatever we're doing here, they love so much that they want to be a part of.
Al Grego:
Okay.
Michelle:
And that's pretty special.
Danielle Poggi:
At the end of the day, as much as we love climbing-
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
It is a business, as well, at the same time. And yeah, there's a lot of risk associated with that as well, like any business.
Al Grego:
Up next, there's risk in every business. But what happens when that risk is amplified by a pandemic?Will Danielle's passion for climbing and the business be enough? Stay tuned to find out. You're listening to, Yes, We Are Open. Danielle Poggi bought an overvalued slumping climbing gym and turned it into a premier destination for avid climbers in the greater Vancouver area. Business at both the locations boomed, and it looked like her biggest problem was going to be expansion in a very expensive Vancouver real estate market. Turns out a pandemic had other plans.
Al Grego:
So let's talk about ... because you mentioned the pandemic and, obviously, that was a struggle for every business. And I don't know what it was like out of here. I know March 2020, that's when everything shut down in Ontario. So how was it here? There was a lockdown, right?
Danielle Poggi:
Absolutely. There was a lockdown. Yeah. So for three months we were ... close to three months, we were closed.
Al Grego:
Yeah. Completely?
Danielle Poggi:
Completely. Yeah. Completely.
Al Grego:
What did you do in that time? Were you just planning? Were you brainstorming?
Danielle Poggi:
Initially, scrambling. Just dealing with the logistics of having to close a business completely and not knowing what the laws are or with regards to our staff and how we can support them, and making sure that they would be okay throughout this whole thing.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
Because again, we did believe we were going to open up again, so we didn't want to lose our staff because that would have a huge impact on our community.
Al Grego:
Did you have to lay anybody off?
Danielle Poggi:
We did absolutely have to lay people off. Yes. A small number of people. But it worked out for the best. I think for everybody involved.
Al Grego:
Yeah. Have any of them been able to come back?
Danielle Poggi:
We are just beginning to see that now. Everyone that is with us were core people and they're all with us. And there are a few that are still on the peripheries, and primarily that's because we are not able to do group bookings.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
So there are limitations on what we can do. So the individuals working with customers or having management roles in the business have all stayed with us.
Al Grego:
In terms of during the pandemic, what was the toughest part during that stretch?
Michelle:
Navigating both of the restrictions, of course. And then everybody's individual and personal thresholds of what they were comfortable with and then personal belief systems as well. There was some people that wanted to do more than what was set out by provincial health orders. Some people that thought it was already too excessive. And so trying to find this middle ground where everybody felt like they were safe to come to work, they were okay to come to work. And then from the member side, that they felt safe to be here, that they could be here, and all those other things. Yeah.
Al Grego:
What kind of measures were it put in place to welcome people back in-person?
Danielle Poggi:
What had happened were all the gyms, collectively, in BC, create an association to help support each other because there's a lot of moving parts in this type of thing.
Al Grego:
Sure.
Danielle Poggi:
And there are individuals in the climbing world with varying skills. And collectively, as a group, we did a really great job working with Work Safe BC and/or the organizations to make sure that we were able to put those measures in place as best we could in alignment with those other organizations, especially Work Safe BC and provincial health authorities.
Al Grego:
Was it because you guys were being lumped in with regular gyms maybe and you didn't want to be, is that why?
Danielle Poggi:
That is certainly part of the reason. We were concerned that we were going to have to stay closed and we wanted to identify what made climbing uniquely different from other activities. It is an individual sport and some of the issues or super spreading activities came from other types of activities, which were group activities.
Al Grego:
Right.
Danielle Poggi:
In small confined areas. And so we wanted to differentiate ourselves from those types of businesses. So we had to share the culture with them as well. So collectively, we had a little bit of a voice, at least enough to make a difference.
Al Grego:
That's smart.
Danielle Poggi:
Always looking for new ways.
Al Grego:
Yeah, that's great.
Danielle Poggi:
To move forward.
Al Grego:
Necessity is the mother of invention, right?
Danielle Poggi:
Yes, exactly. We started planning on what it would look like to reopen. At the same time, I got to say we were happy. It was a bit of a holiday for a week or two. We actually got to sit back and watch it unfold, and maybe actually create a space where we could then start to think about what the future's going to look like. I think we get at so caught in to the day-to-day operations of facility, that it's hard to actually start to think about how are we planning for a three, five and 10 years down the road? So maybe there was actually the opportunity for us to re-look at what our vision was going to be moving forward.
Al Grego:
Okay.
Danielle Poggi:
So I would say that took ... that didn't happen until the first month. I think at that point, it starts to set in. What is actually going to happen? How are we going to support our community through this whole process? How are we going to support our staff through this whole process? And then how is the gym going to come out of this? How are we going to grow? And the government, I would say, did a really good job for us, at least, to help us have some security, knowing that we were going to be able to survive, to continue moving forward in our process of growth.
Al Grego:
Anything that Moneris did to help with the transitions or whatever, changes you had to make in our order to survive?
Danielle Poggi:
You know what I love about Moneris is that I don't have to think about it.
Al Grego:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Danielle Poggi:
Because our rep is amazing. He is so on the ball. I can call him in a moment's notice. I get a response from him right away. I know he's got ... he's actually got our back. It's very rare to say of any company, especially in this sort of business where they're making sure that they're giving you the best deal you can possibly get in the industry, instead of me having to shop around all the time. That is so unheard of. So there is some loyalty there on my part.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
In that way. And I'm always looking for that. One, it makes my life easier; and two, there's a relationship that's built. And anyways, they manage our transaction. They've done a great job.
Al Grego:
Perfect.
Danielle Poggi:
And it's a great relationship, I think. A big part of climbing is creating a community of people that are like-minded and who are really passionate about what they do. So even given the situation of COVID, which has been, by far, the largest pressure that we've seen so far. Our members were so incredibly supported. Well, they were supported as well, but were also very supportive where they were assisting us to stay open financially from the very beginning.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
So it would've been challenging to ... had it gone on the way it was in the first few months, already I was ready to go in debt to keep the business going up to a certain amount. I had a number in my mind. And I know that, to a certain degree, they would've supported it along the way as well. It was extraordinary.
Al Grego:
During my visit to Climb Base 5, I had the pleasure of speaking to a few of Danielle's patrons. Here are Dave and Aaron. So how long has been climbing here?
Dave:
Excellent question. A long time. Longer than I can remember. Probably since they opened.
Al Grego:
Yeah?
Dave:
Yeah?
Aaron:
Yeah. Like 10, 12 years.
Al Grego:
So even before it was Climb Base, when it was-
Aaron:
Yeah. Before it was Cliff Hanger.
Dave:
Yep.
Aaron:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
Great. And what kept you coming back?
Dave:
Oh, the quality of the roots, pretty much that, and the staff are very friendly and we have a good group of people that come regularly. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we got a morning group that comes out all the time. So it's a little social event as well.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Dave:
Yeah.
Aaron:
Yeah. For me it's the community of the people that I've met here, for sure. It's a good group we've built.
Al Grego:
Coming up after the break, we find out what the future holds for Climb Base 5.
Mat Belanger:
This podcast is brought to you by Moneris. Today has shown us tomorrow has changed. Changed how we'll live, work, and do business because now we're more open into what's possible. Open to contactless payments, online bookings, curbside pickups, and more. Open your business to more opportunity with solutions to help you succeed online in store or on the go. To talk to one of our business advisors, call: 1-866-moneris or visit: moneris.com today.
Al Grego:
Welcome back to Yes, We Are Open. Danielle Poggi and the staff have weathered the pandemic, and it seems Climb Base 5 is back on its way to full recovery. So what are their plans for the future? How can they grow given the current real estate market? We'll find out next. What does the future look like for Climb Base 5, then?
Danielle Poggi:
I would say the future's looking really bright. If we look at our sales, what we're doing now compared to what they were in 2019, they're very similar.
Al Grego:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Danielle Poggi:
Just so I can explain why that's so relevant and important is that we still have capacity issues where we can't do groups. So our sales are very similar, but we're missing a segment, which was 30% of our business previously.
Al Grego:
That big?
Danielle Poggi:
Yeah. So in some ways, it's actually opened the door looking at how we operate our business very differently where we can focus on our core climbers. But again, one of our core values is inclusivity. And we realize that our future climbers come in other programming like youth programming specifically, from birthday parties to kids' development, training. We have Olympians who have trained, not only trained, but have come out of climbing at the facilities that we own, presently. So that is the future.
Al Grego:
Can you name someone?
Danielle Poggi:
Well, Alannah Yip was one of the individuals that works for us. And there's another athlete that doesn't work for us, and previously trained at our North Van location, Sean McColl. And those are the two Canadians that went to the Olympics.
Al Grego:
Nice.
Danielle Poggi:
So we know that they started from going to a birthday party, and climbing wasn't necessarily something that was in their future. It just happened by fluke that someone invited them to go to a birthday day party and they became Olympians with a lot of work and dedication that went into it afterwards. So to cut off our stream of new climbers wouldn't make sense. But how we actually service those climbers could look very differently by having segmented facilities that are dedicated specifically to kids or specifically to new climbers or specifically to elite athletes.
Al Grego:
What are your plans for future growth?
Danielle Poggi:
Well, we're going to see what inflation's going to do. Certainly that's going to be a factor and real estate prices. The way we connect with other organizations and people and growing our business has been paramount in our success and that won't change. And how that's going to look moving forward with regards to establishing new locations, I'm not entirely sure. I can definitely see there's a synergy with the people we work with in this location, with the gymnastics and dance studio. And we're looking at ways of how we can partner to build our own facility or to partner with local officials like the community to perhaps build another community center. And then there are other opportunities as well.
Al Grego:
Well, what does the future look like for you at Climb Base?
Michelle:
I certainly hope that we open up more locations, Danielle, as she looks over ... at Danielle. And so for me, it would just be growing the brand to be a place that people start to associate the name with. Oh, that is, first of all, a climbing gym where I will always be welcome. There will always be something for me. And then if you look at it again from that program standpoint, recognizing that is where excellence comes from. That is where community comes from.
Al Grego:
What about mergers or acquisitions?
Danielle Poggi:
That is more likely what's going to happen.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
There's going to be somebody with an older facility who is now ready to retire or move on or do something different. They've done it. Or they just don't ... You know what they don't have? They don't have the team.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
That we have. And that is a huge part of who we are. We have such amazing people that work for us as a group. And it's very easy for us to take on a smaller facility at this point and then just implement everything that we've created here. It'd be really cool, straightforward.
Al Grego:
Yeah. You've got a model and it's repeatable.
Danielle Poggi:
Repeatable. Exactly. I love working in my business. I love the people. I love what I do. There are many days I ask myself, why am I working so much? My background, like I said, is climbing. I've climbed at a very high level. I've competed across North America. My kids are now 18 and 16, and my daughter is loving climbing. And I would love to climb at similarly to how I did previously.
Al Grego:
Yeah.
Danielle Poggi:
And I race bikes. I love the outdoors. I love to cook. There are things I love to do, and I don't ever want to lose the ability to do those things. At the same time. I love my business just as much. And what it provides people in general, climbers and non-climbers alike. As soon as you leave the ground, there is a fear that can actually be completely overwhelming, but at that moment, you choose, you choose to take part in life. You choose to be the source of getting to the top of the wall and going through whatever you have to go through. So that, I'm telling you, is the most exciting part of what climbing provides. And I'm committed to providing that for the world because I know how that transforms people completely. So I don't see myself stopping, working any day soon. And we'll see what happens. Who knows?
Al Grego:
Thank you so much.
Danielle Poggi:
Yeah.
Al Grego:
Appreciate it. So Danielle, are you open for business?
Danielle Poggi:
Yes, we are open.
Al Grego:
Awesome. That's the story of Climb Base 5. Danielle Poggi has now succeeded at rebuilding a slumping business not once, but twice. First when she bought out the business from her partner at a premium, even though it wasn't doing well, and then, again, when the world shut down around them due to the pandemic. Just one of those might have been enough to make someone else call it quits. But if you believe Danielle, those never any doubt that he would succeed. So what makes Danielle different?
Al Grego:
I can't help but wonder if there's something inherent in the psyche of a climber that equips them to better overcome seemingly impossible obstacles. Think about it. A climber needs to look up at the task in front of them undaunted, make an initial assessment on a proper route, and then regardless of the size of the obstacle, take it one handhold and foothold at a time making corrections and crucial decisions, mid-climbing, yes.
Al Grego:
Sometimes making those leaps for the next level while never giving up until you reach the top. It seems to me that climbing is a perfect analogy to what it takes to succeed in business. And if that's true, then Danielle and her team are more than capable of taking Climb Base 5 to the summit and beyond. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go find myself a hobby that'll give me the same tools, but keep me closer to the ground.
Al Grego:
Yes, We Are Open is a Moneris podcast production. I'd like to thank Jing, Dave, Aaron, Michelle, and Danielle for taking the time to share this story. You can learn more about Climb Base 5 at: climbbase5.com. Follow them on Facebook and Twitter at: Climb Base 5. And on Instagram, they're at climb.base5 and on LinkedIn. For more information about this podcast, visit our site: yesweareopenpodcast.com.
Al Grego:
If you'd like to support us, rate us on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a Canadian small business owner or know of one with an interesting story of perseverance to tell, I'd love to help tell it. You can contact me at: podcast@moneris.com. Tune in next week for another story of small business struggle and survival on the Yes, We Are Open podcast. I'm Al Grego. Thank you for listening.